Debora Joy

*Note: This auto-transcript is only lightly edited. You might find some typos! 

Jeff
Hey, what’s up? Welcome back to the Consciousness Explorers Podcast, the podcast that’s all about adventuring through the mind body continuum, including the voice, which we’re going to be exploring today. We are your hosts. My name is Jeff Warren and with me is Tasha Schumann.

Tasha
Hey

Jeff
So like I said, today, the practice is around the voice. Our guest is Debora Joy. She’s a voice coach who lives here in Toronto, and someone I got connected to actually through work. And I’ve found it really interesting getting to know her and getting to do some of these practices. So today’s a little bit different. You want to say something about today Tasha, what you liked.

Tasha
I mean, yeah, we’re gonna be doing several practices, it’s not just a whole lot of talking, and then one practice, so it’s kind of really dynamic based on where you are today. But you’re gonna want some space to lie down someplace to put your feet up on close a door, you’re gonna make some noises, do some breathing, and it’s gonna be a wild ride.

Jeff
Yeah, it’s definitely a weirder hour. So we had so much fun. So it’s participatory, obviously, like, all of these things are, you’re gonna hear some strange noises. So maybe just, you know, let the neighbours know or the volume down a little bit low. I guess what I really liked about this was it was same reason I like working with Debora is, you know, it’s very subtle going into this, you don’t really know what you’re doing, you’re kind of practising this whole range of weird sounds and tones. But the idea is that as you explore, you kind of begin to access a wider bandwidth of yourself. And I really find myself in a different place coming out the other side of this, and the insights are very much staggered along as we do the different practice, they kind of come out organically.

Tasha
And I think the thing I love is that the insights aren’t conceptual, they’re really, really embodied. So you’re not really sure why your head feels like open and bright, but it just does. So it’s really cool.

Jeff
So without further ado, enjoy.

Welcome to the Consciousness Explorers podcast.

Debora Joy
Well, thank you.

Tasha
So good to have you.

Jeff
So I’m particularly excited about this. Because, as I mentioned, Debora has been helping me with my own voice stuff. That’s how we actually met, I’ve been doing this voice work for Calm the app, recording meditations. And I was finding that I was sort of running out of gas in my voice, and I was encountering a few challenges. And so the idea came up that maybe I could work with a voice coach to help with that process. And I’ve found and over the weeks that I’ve been working with Debora, that it’s become this whole learning experience this whole kind of path into understanding myself. So wow, I did not expect that. So that’s why we I invited Debora to come on, and we’re excited to have you here. And that’s a little bit of context.

Debora Joy
Well, thank you. Yes, it’s been a pleasure, absolute pleasure to work with you, Jeff. And it’s a very common thing to get tired vocally. And to kind of feel like you don’t have the stamina, and so on. And it’s, I think it’s important to think how physical using your voice is and how the voice embodies both the intellect, the emotions, of course, the physical body. And you know, somebody playing Hamlet on this Stratford stage, is going to feel like they’ve gone through a marathon but not only a physical marathon, vocal marathon, and emotional and intellectual, and spiritual marathon. And so I think that we can kind of forget how physical the voice is, and how it encompasses all these things. Kristin Linklater says that you are your voice, and your environment, your upbringing, your parents, your family, your friends, the different languages you speak, of course, and any trauma that’s gone on in your life, we’ll all have an imprint on your voice. And part of the work is about allowing us to touch base and recognise Oh, look at this. I you know, have you ever been asked? Oh, you know, I thought I was speaking to your mother is this, you know, those kinds of things, right? Oh, I sound like my dad. You know, that whole thing. Now we don’t have a communal phone. So that’s not happening as much. But I think it’s kind of neat. How all of those things imprint on the voice. Well, there’s

Jeff
So much to unpack there.

Tasha
Yeah, I’ve liked I’ve been a vocalist my entire life. And aside from working with a coach, like at the very beginning of my career, I never have again and so much other vocal listening like what, but I know I think it’s something about having like, you know, working in hip hop and electronic. And so there’s just this like feeling that I got it, whatever you just get on stage and give it my all, but the amount of times that I’ve almost literally puked on stage, I just don’t have anything else to give, you know, at the end of the set, or, you know, because it’s so physical. So I’m very, very stoked to have you on to kind of unpack this.

Debora Joy
Well, one of the things that makes me one of the tangents that makes me want to go on right now is this idea of exhaling. As a society, we have been holding our breaths for an awfully long time. And that sense of keeping it in of not allowing ourselves to express emotion, or express what we’re really feeling. And that shows up in. I have students, for instance, who I have to teach how to smile, how to use their cheeks, so that they can get their soft palate moving, because you know, they don’t want to reveal themselves. And so that has so much impact on resonance and the voice as well. And so here is an exercise right off the top that I love. It’s a Kundalini exercise, Kundalini yoga exercise. I’m a teacher of Kundalini yoga as well. And I really love this one, and it’s called clearing the karma. And my sidebar for that is throwing away the garbage.

[Meditation]

And that brings me back to the subject of the basement. How often do we let ourselves kind of vocally sit down here somewhere and kind of speaking from this place, this place of kind of introspection and kind of fatigue. And again, not allowing yourself to really communicate how you’re feeling. I have a son, for instance, who came back from school one day, and he, he had done well in assignment. And well, I asked him how how he did in his assignment? And he saw Yeah, it was okay, I did fine. I got an A. For a teacher tell me how you really feel. Use a hand. So that shyness or an ability or embarrassment to actually reveal something positive in a energizing way? It’s just amazing how we do that to ourselves. And so part of that vocal frying is that shyness, I think, or that inability to reveal how extraordinary we all are, and how unique we all are, and how we all have important things to say,

Jeff
Well, this is one of the things that I found really interesting and working with you is that we identified that I sort of speak in this way, that’s probably lower than my, what my natural pitch would be. And so there was there’s been a bit of an exploration of why that’s about it’s like this some part is suppressing something, or I’m not sure myself what it is. But you’re the one that really kind of pointed it out and say, Okay, there’s some learning here, and seems related to what you’re talking about. But coming out of the basement. Yeah.

Debora Joy
Yeah, yes. And that’s this idea of exhaling as a society of allowing ourselves to inhale and actually exhale fully. And the vocal fry is a particular pension of mine. Because I feel that it restricts us, it prevents us from really communicating. And it narrows our range to such an extent that our natural range that every single human being without any training has about five octaves of range. And, you know, how much do we actually use in a day? And? I betcha it’s it’s yeah, it’s, it’s in the very, very bottom of our ranges. And so the other thing that I wanted to touch base with before we go into the sequence, which will help you I hope to come up into the living rooms, is also this sense of being truly present. And what is it to be vocally present to be in the here and now and how social media and texting has prevented us as humans to allow us to be present. And of course, in the theatre, I teach a lot in the theatre. I’d say three quarters of my practice is in the theatre, and the other quarters with professional voice users and other people interested in the voice. But that sense of being present as an actor, and we can feel it in our bones when we’re in the audience. And we are, we are hearing an actor or a singer, truly being present and spontaneous in the moment.

Jeff
Can you say a bit more about what that means vocally? Like what does it mean to be vocally present? Like what that sounds like versus not being present?

Debora Joy
Yes, well, it gets into this idea of second circle. There are three circles as Patsy Rotenberg outlines in a book called The Second Circle. And the second circle is about being here in the now, with your senses available with your heart, open your ears, open your eyes, open, your sense of touch and smell open and communicating to one other person and being intimate with that person in that circle of concentration between the two of you. And so today, for instance, with all the zooming that we’re having to do It’s really hard to stay in second circle. And we tend to either go back into first circle and turn off our screens and just kind of, you know, write our lists as we’re listening to

Jeff
The first circle is private and personal and then the third circle is more super public and broadcasting out or something?

Debora Joy
That’s right, third circle, I’m speaking at third circle. Now, it’s a little larger than life. It’s a little over aggressive, if you ask me personally. And, you know, so if we were going to take this phrase, for instance, just the phrase, I know you, I see you, I hear you in third circle, you can hear how kind of annoying it is. In first circle, yeah, I hear you I see you by you know, I know you I know who you are sure I do? Or do you take the risk to breathe down? Breathe that person? Yeah. And even if it’s through a screen, I hear you. I know you.

I see you.

Tasha
Hmm, there’s a lot of vulnerability in it.

Debora Joy
That’s right. And how, how can we allow ourselves to be that vulnerable? And what are some ways and exercises that we can do? To I would say, enjoy that embody that, you know, the opposite of fear. And nervousness is excitement. So can we actually allow ourselves to be excited about being vulnerable? You know, what it’s like Tasha going up on that stage in that moment before, and you’ve got that nervous stomach, right? And

Tasha
I’m just thinking of, I’m trying to map first, second and third circles on to me as a performer and how that manifests. It can be so daunting, sometimes if you’re standing in front of, you know, like, what, 5000 people or something, and you want to have that intimacy, or you want to have that vulnerability, but it’s like, the sheer numbers in the crowd are kind of dictating. Like, you just kind of go into third because you’re it’s like a, I don’t know, defence mechanism almost.

Debora Joy
Exactly. And if you think that, you know, there’s one person or three people in that audience that really needs to hear your message tonight.

Tasha
Yeah. And I’ve noticed that as well. Like, I find I my favourite performances are ones where I’ll focus on I’ll pick like three people. And they’re usually like young women, who look really excited about being at the show, and I’ll pick them and kind of perform to them. And then there’s this, like, intimacy or this, like, I see you, sister, you know, and if you just perform to them, you can have that intimacy, you kind of forget that, about the sheer numbers in the crowd.

Debora Joy
Oh, absolutely. And it brings your focus into this wonderful place that as human beings, we pick up on that charisma, that alchemy, between you and your audience. I’m fascinated by that. And I think it’s available to all of us, if we will take the risk to explore it, you know,

Jeff
Is there an exercise we can actually do that get set that first second third circle distinction?

Debora Joy
Yeah well, something like what I just did, a we can play with, but I’d like to do a little voice work to bring us into that availability so that we’re not stuck in the basement. And so that we can come up.

Tasha
Do you find those, like a difference with gender? Like, it seems like, it would be almost be gendered, like women are kind of, you know, the, our societal habit would be that women kind of tend upwards when they’re kind of doing that dissociation in men might, might go more towards like the masculine tough guy voice.

Debora Joy
Oh definitely. And that goes into the whole idea of vocal bluff all the different laughs that we use to hide our vulnerability or to hide our authentic selves. And some of these we’re not even aware of, you know, so again, as a voice for acting teacher, I often go through, you know, little exercises where you literally take off the social bluff feel like it’s a sweater.

Let’s just do that right now. Pretend you’re taking off this social character of yours, whatever that might be. Is it the Oh, yeah, I know everything person. Is it the you know, I’m a pretty shy person, like water, those social bluffs that get in our way of true indication and you can take them off like a costume. And then the actor actually can act from from a more truthful place and take on the facets of the character from a neutral place, as opposed to a place that already has five different costumes cannot write so that you can allow yourself more connection, more personal connection.

Jeff
So this is why I’m hearing you say is that by our habits, our conditioning, we get stuck in these sort of ways of speaking, these words are more limited range or to the particular role. And that just prevents us from accessing the natural flexibility and adaptability and range of what’s actually there. And when we have that more adaptable opened up range, then we can more easily move into the circle that’s appropriate, but that we can’t access that as well when we’re stuck in these registers.

Debora Joy
Absolutely, you know, if you think of the mark Antony’s speech from Julius Caesar, Friends, Romans, Countrymen, Lend Me Your Ears. Of course, that first line is all about third circle, right? But then he gets into describing Caesar’s wounds. And it’s like he’s describing his father’s death. Right? It’s not actually his father, but he is, you know, in terms of connection. And my goodness, that is an actor. And I think as every human being, we all love to tell stories. How much of our lives is, you know, what did you do today, honey? And we tell this story. And it’s wonderful to be able to tell that story in a really truthful, authentic way, you know, rather than hiding. And, you know, oh, yeah, I got an A Yeah. Okay. And you’re right, Tasha, in terms of the male, female. But I think this last 20 years or so, many of the female habits have shifted into more male habits.

Tasha
I’ve noticed that even in myself, I think when I was like, in high school, I had a higher I remember, like, having a higher voice. Because I would lose my voice all the time. Because I’m naturally very high energy. And talking with a lot of energy in a register, that was too high, I would lose my voice once a week. And then I got like, vocal nodes and everything. And then just like, you know, as I kind of matured, I was like, it’s okay to talk lower, like inhabit this lower region that I hadn’t explored before.

Debora Joy
Oh, for sure. Absolutely. And, and so it is interesting, if, if you read the right to speak by Patti Brotenburg, that was written in the 80s. And then she did an update. But I think 97 is the update. So it’s, it’s still perhaps going to be updated again. And she goes into some of those habits, and looking at the gender differences. But I think I think like everything else that’s evolving. So we’ll see what happens what, what her next iteration. But so why don’t we start with our practice? And if you’re able to lie down on your back, and place your legs up on a chair.

Jeff
Now, do you want to hear a string this practice like giving feedback? Or do you would you Is it easier for you if it’s just silent?

Debora Joy
No, I’d love to hear you. If that’s not going to create feedback or whatever,

Jeff
I can do that. I’m going to just get myself over on the floor here. So I’ll keep my muted. Okay,

Debora Joy
and so you’re placing your legs up on the chair and the size are really hanging down from the knees down into your hips.

Tasha
Is there any pillows involved?

Debora Joy
[Exercises begins]
[Exercises end]

Tasha
If somebody wanted to, you know, make this a part of their, like everyday life, you know, let’s say I like even on days when I’m not performing. And I want to just kind of like, loosen up how I talk, what would be like a regular kind of practice of this?

Debora Joy
Well, the first thing to do is to do some physical release work, like you know, we lay down on our backs with their legs up today. But you can do stretches, you can do yoga, you can go for a little run, you can tremor to shake out the body. And so remember, the body is your instrument. So it’s really important that you release it, you release any tensions, then the next step would be a touch of sound or a sigh of relief, like what we were doing with our size today. The next step would be jaw and tongue work. And then the resonance work like we did with our humming. So that the zoo and mah and the wee, then you do some articulation or tongue twisters. And if you’re thinking about speaking, then you can take keywords from your meditations that you’re teaching, like Jeff is or keywords for many speeches or talks you have to give, explore those. And notice how you’re breathing. Notice how you’re doing. And of course, if you’re singing, then you would go through your range work,

Jeff
Say a person only had five minutes and doesn’t and has a hard time remembering all those things. Like for me what I do now, because of you before I go into the studio, is I’ll just do I’ll do a kind of shaking, kind of like stretching, shaking, like I’ll touch my toes and I’ll shake my body out kind of doing you’re saying at the beginning, get some of the energy out and then I’ll do some like, whatever. Like you told me to these trill kind of rolling RS things I’ll do a few just to kind of open up my chest in my range a bit. And I find just that little bit helps. I mean, I do you gave me a sequence that’s like 20 minutes that I’ll do if I have that time. But even just that can presumably help people out a little better.

Debora Joy
I mean, even that little meditation we did with throwing the garbage out, that’s going to help you exhale. And that’s always a good first step right? So, but But I do think that it’s important to realise that if you are professional speaker, then really do think of the athlete. And you know, my son swam up to a very high level for 15 years. And so he was practising 24 hours a week. So this whole idea of practice is important. But I think also just bringing it into your life because for instance, you can be in the shower, and you can sing, and singing, releases endorphins, oxytocin, serotonin, all those good feeling hormones. And, you know, as you’re washing the dishes, you could do your Supercalifragilistic. teach everybody. And the other thing is to to speak, even in days, when you’re not around people, and you don’t have people around you speak out loud. Because like everything else, we need that as humans, it’s a important part of our ourselves, our consciousnesses to is to use the voice.

Jeff
Amazing, that is such good advice. And, you know, I really think maybe we should try to hit you on again to do so. And that will be a real shocker for the I mean, maybe I’ll just stay out of that one and be more.

Debora Joy
No, no, no.

Tasha
Oh, and before you run off, is there anything you want to share with the audience, any links, places that they can access you or anything?

Debora Joy
I have a website at www.deborajoy.com and that’s it. And I think my email is there. And I, as I say, I teach Kundalini yoga and voice work, and I teach all sorts of beautiful people. And you’re based here in Toronto, right? I am. I’m in the beaches. Yeah.

Tasha
Perfect. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Debora Joy
Thank you.

Tasha
This was so much fun.

Thanks for tuning in to the consciousness explorers podcast. Don’t forget to subscribe. And if you’d like this episode, give us a five star rating on Apple podcasts. See you next week for a whole new adventure.