Sebene
Selassie

Jeff
Hey, everybody, welcome to the consciousness explorers podcast. My name is Jeff Warren. And with me here is my friend Tasha Schumann,

Tasha
Yo!

Jeff
So we are the podcast that’s all about exploring real-time practice, getting some practitioners, some teachers from whatever modality to come in and guide us in a 10 or 15 minute practice. And we notice what we notice and then we kind of explore afterwards what that tells us about ourself about reality. So today’s guest is Sebene Selassie, who I’m very excited to have on. She is a fellow teacher of mine, actually through 10% happier, we’ve had her on at the Consciousness Explorers Club, doing workshops, she’s got a book out called You Belong, she’s just a lovely human being. Tasha can say something with the practice?

Tasha
Yeah, I didn’t previously know Sebene, although I’d heard of her. And I was so happy to connect with her on this episode, I found the practice, you know, of doing four elements, her way of doing it was so grounded, so connected, very embodied. And so it was very practical in that way.

Jeff
Yeah. The other practical thing I’ve found that I’ll just mention off the top is, we talk about how this practice is, it’s almost like a diagnostic as you connect into these different elements of earth, water, fire and air, you kind of get clear about maybe where there’s some imbalance in you. And so what element can kind of be boosted up? And I found that really interesting. It was sort of a way to get insight about your own kind of mind body proclivities. So let’s explore this do it. Welcome Sebene.

Sebene
Thank you, Jeff. Great to be here.

Tasha
Yeah. Thanks for being on.

Sebene
Thanks, Tasha. Nice to meet you,

Tasha
Likewise.

Jeff
So we’re excited about this practice you’re gonna guide. Can you tell us a little bit about it and why you’ve chosen this?

Sebene
Yeah. So I’m gonna guide us through mindfulness of the four elements – of earth, fire, water, and air. This is a practice in the classical mindfulness teachings, but it doesn’t get taught very often, in kind of modern mindfulness spaces. So I like teaching it because I think it’s really powerful and I believe we don’t really pay enough attention to it.

Tasha
Yeah. Normally, when you do like mindfulness, it’s usually like body, breath, thoughts. Right?

Sebene
Right. And this is right in there within the first foundation of mindfulness along with mindfulness of the breath. And the other kind of body base. This is the classical practice. So yeah, I just want to bring it back to these basics, which I think are really powerful.

Jeff
Beautiful.

Tasha
Yeah, I’m excited.

Sebene
Great. So we’ll do maybe about 10, 12 minutes or so. And just inviting you to find a posture that’s really comfortable for you doesn’t have to be anything special or specific. Just want to make sure that you feel grounded. So you want to be sitting or standing, or even lying down in a way that really allows you to rest on the floor the earth. And see if you can find some openness in the body. So you don’t want your front and your body to be collapsed. So if you’re sitting you can sit up straight. We also want to have a sense of relaxation and softness to so seeing how you can find that balance for yourself.

[Meditation]

Tasha
Thank you. That was very nice. It was like, exactly what I needed today. Very grounding.

Sebene
That’s good. I’m glad to hear that Tasha.

Tasha
Jeff, do you wanna? Are the things that you felt into words yet? I always find it takes a minute after you get out of meditation to like, give the things words.

Jeff
Yeah, well, thank you for that Sebene, that was really settling. Well, I guess what I noticed was, each element had a quite different effect, on my experience, when I sort of really connected to it. And they were all quite subtle. But for me, I felt like I could really notice that the difference of the whole for the first being very grounding in which was a wonderful way to start it.

And then the second one was quite energizing for me, even to the point of a little bit uncomfortable, you know, kind of noticing the heat in my face, and it was it was it got warm.

And then the the water one was a lot about equanimity. For me, it was very eye opening, everything felt like it kind of really opened then. And then with the air was almost the hardest to put into words. But it was sort of more of a merging feeling almost. I mean, I don’t know, partly is the way you guided it. And that’s the whole question itself, you know, the effects of the thing, or paying attention versus the person guiding but very much left me in this kind of wide open space. And I especially appreciate the invitation at the end of each element to like, if you could find this anytime or come back to when you like, and so there was a quite a progression. For me. That was my, that’s my level report.

Tasha
Mm hmm. Yeah, I felt the same. Every every element had such a different quality and my experience, and in a really connected way, like it was an abstract for me, I think the one that landed the most was the fire one. And, you know, Jeff, I’ve mentioned this to you before, but earlier this year, I was diagnosed with Graves disease, which is hyperthyroidism. So my system is kind of constantly upregulated, and kind of, you know, all over the place. So when we got to fire, I was, you know, feeling the heat in my body and my heart rate, which is always up lately. And it was crazy, because normally that’s a negative experience. For me, it was kind of like a managing experience. And this time, the way that you talked about fire had this aliveness. So I was able to look at all those experiences from kind of like this magical, you know, I could feel the power in it. So instead of this being this thing that annoys me, throughout the day, it was kind of like, just sitting in this, you know, seed of potentiality kind of a thing. So it was really cool kind of connection with that aspect of my experience. And then for the water, water and fire often like quite at odds with each other. So it was an invitation for me to see the ways in which the excess of fire in my body makes me dehydrated, or, you know, makes my eyes dry and things like that. So they just, they just kind of came together in such a, I don’t know, like symbiotic experience, you know that there is really there is a balance here and my body even if it’s not the balance, so I want it to be Yeah, and then for the air one, such a lovely one ended on because it’s just so spacious.

And as you were bringing us through that I remembered something I read in one of my yoga books that you know, when we breathe, we have this idea that we’re taking air in that we’re like, you know, forcefully pulling air out of the environment, but really, your muscles just make space. And then the air rushes in. So it’s like the universe’s breathing you and you know, it’s just like this invitation to be like, oh, yeah, I’m not like struggling against it. I’m not like forcefully breathing. It’s just this, you know, complete relationship with the world. It’s kind of we’re doing each other. So after, after all those different sensations, it was just so kind of grounding, to end there. That’s my report.

Sebene
Yeah, beautiful, there’s something about this practice that I didn’t want to say this at the beginning. So just want to be you and people to experience it as it is. But it takes a little getting used to. And it’s a little strange to guide it for folks because I loved what you were pointing out Tasha, because I think it is kind of a balancing practice. So that I often come to it, not going through the four elements all the time in a particular order, but really giving awareness to the element that I feel is most needed in that moment. So if I’m feeling really kind of airy, then I might want to connect to earth or if I’m feeling You know, particularly fiery, I might want to connect to water. And in that way I find it a really practical invitation. Yeah. Yeah,

Tasha
I was thinking that practical is the word that kind of came up. But Practical, not in like a day to day get stuff done type a kind of practical but more and like, connecting to Earth, rare like shamanic practical, like applicable for being human.

Sebene
Yes. shamanic is such a great term to use, because that’s sort of what struck me. I mean, this comes out of the Satipatana suta, which is the main text on mindfulness. But you know, as moderns, we kind of pick and choose what we’re attracted to. And we don’t consider that we’re bringing a particular lens to it. But when I first was led through this on a retreat, I really reflected on Oh, wow, you know, this is Chinese medicine. This is Ayurveda, this is every indigenous tradition on every continent. It’s in, you know, Ancient Egypt and Ancient Greece, and all, all indigenous cultures talk about the elements. And so what is the power of this? And why? Why have we left that out? I mean, we know colonization, modernity, the enlightenment, all of it, you know, we’re so in our heads, we called it mindfulness. And so bringing that back in is sort of connecting us to that indigeneity, that shamanic power of something that seems so basic, but it’s actually super powerful. Absolutely.

Tasha
And another thing that I was thinking, as you said, that is, you know, the way mindfulness is often taught, and the way that we kind of present it to people, it’s like, here’s this tool to help you be better at work and better at sleep. And, you know, just kind of focus on your breath and get rid of the things that are challenging, you know, or that’s at least how a lot of people kind of approach it. It’s like this Betterment tool. But when you do it like this, it’s kind of an eye just like bringing you back to where you are in such a real way that it’s so easy to connect with, rather than that feeling of like, okay, I’m gonna become better at things better at life.

Jeff
So you have this thing about personal that the practice is balancing in. So you can use it as a kind of diagnostic and make those adjustments. But far deeper than that is what you are both playing out the sense that it’s deeply connecting, that it connects us to our environment, to the earth to what things are made of, in a way that’s so explicit. So there’s this kind of intimacy feeling, or the sense of belonging, or not being separate from everything else.

Sebene
Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, another thing I didn’t want to kind of prime is that in some ways, this practice takes some getting used to because in the beginning, it feels almost like a contemplation to do what you’re describing Jeff, which is to recognize that we are nature to, like nature’s not out there, like in the woods far away from me, it’s we are nature. And these four elements are just metaphors for the fact that we are of the same stuff as everything else in the universe, we all originated from this tiny, teeny, infinitesimally small point, and all matter can be described by these four things. And that is, is such a powerful thing to actually feel. In the beginning, it can be hard to actually feel it, you know, to feel what is Earth, like, how do I feel that so, you know, I can give words and pointers, but practicing with each element and starting to really sense the feeling, and bring in that contemplative way of feeling that connection to what seems external to us, via the sun or, you know, our hot tea, but we can start to really feel that these elements are our ways to dissolve those false barriers.

Jeff
Yeah, like, has there, sorry go ahead Tasha –

Tasha
I was just gonna say, Oh, I forgot my point. You go ahead, whatever you get, it’ll come back.

Jeff
[Laughs]. Sorry, sorry. I was just gonna say, Sebene. Has there been a kind of progression for you? You know, over the years, as you’ve done this practice, has it changed or evolved or deepened? And can you maybe try to articulate if it has, how would

Sebene
I first did this practice in, you know, more intensively, I’d say, on retreat with Venerable Analayo, who’s a Theravadan monk from Germany. And he teaches it in a very methodical, systematic way. So I was doing it like that, in the beginning, really like bones, teeth, fat flesh, like that density of Earth, and we kind of have to find our own metaphors. And that that is really discovering what that felt sense is for you, and I can’t explain it to you, I can just give you pointers. So for me that that was the process of discovery is like What does water feel like in my body? You know, it’s this kind of it’s not particular of course, I can feel the saliva and feel the moistness and but it’s it’s a much more fluid, no pun intended, kind of a awareness, you know of, of what that means. I’ve also over time started to integrate this into my daily awareness practice. So that, you know, in any moment I can be in the shower, and there’s water element there, or I can be lighting the stove, and there’s fire. And so the awareness of the elements starts to kind of permeate my life in all these different ways.

Tasha
Yeah, and you talk a lot about, you know, belonging, you know, that’s like, what your book is about? And how do you feel? I mean, it feels this really like I can understand and see how this brings me to that understanding of belonging with, you know, just interconnectivity. How in a more concrete way, is this a practice that makes you feel more connected to people, because I think sometimes, for myself, anyways, I can feel connected to nature, I can feel connected to even animals, but it becomes more difficult when you’re talking about people. And because people are much more difficult and feel like separate entities.

Sebene
That’s interesting. You know, I don’t know if I’ve considered it in terms of the elements in that kind of conscious way as connecting to people, but what it has connected me to his, our inherent indigeneity. And our loss of that, like our lot, the loss of our capacity to really deeply connect to the nature of things, the nature of reality, I mean, I kind of have a tendency to classify myself and people as very fiery, or very earthy or watery. So there’s that. But more, I think more kind of powerful for me has been how this practice can connect all of us to that belonging, you know, so it’s not kind of a psychological acceptance of people. It’s more like we are all this, all of us. So this, this removes kind of the psychological aspects of being a human and connects us back to that elemental aspect of being human.

Jeff
Well, it’s another way into that, of course, that kind of age old question, this idea of that we do these practices, and they bring us into a kind of common humanity, a common groundwork or framework, common sense of a single thing that we belong to. And that’s the their great gift. And yet the paradoxes, we are also different, and those differences matter. So I kind of feel like we need practices that do both these things, maybe not the same practice, but practices that help us understand the unique ways we’re different, and can support that difference. And then practices that are also about highlighting the ways in which we’re connected, and the ways in which that we share what we share. As a big thing. I know, your your, your book, explores these themes. Is there anything about that, that comes up for you?

Sebene
Yeah, that that that is like that is the theme of the book, like we are not the same, but we are not separate. So we are interconnected, and we’re different. And for me, I noticed that I can kind of ricochet between those two poles, depending how I am feeling. So part of it is recognizing where we are, you know, we’re kind of leaning towards the harmony, because we want to raise, we’re trying to avoid the dissonance, and, you know, kind of we’re all one why are we arguing why is difference coming up? If that if that’s where we’re going, then yes, we need practices that can help us explore or differences relationality, you know, to see our own minds to see the biases to see the clinging, to see what’s not usually seen, and I know that I can swing to the other side, a lot, like kind of get lost in the complexity get lost in identity get lost in difference. And so these grounding practices, that really helped me connect to something that is timeless, that’s also the truth have been important for me. And so each of us has to kind of do our own work. And sometimes those things fall along, you know, racial lines or gender lines that you know, you have a lot of white people clinging to harmony. You know, people of color are kind of clinging to complexity and difference, but not always, you know, and so we have to sort of do our own investigating to see where that is.

Jeff
You can’t help but notice, it feels like in our culture more generally, when you’re younger, you notice your own differences and you develop certain sensitivities that are overlooked by people who are older. And that’s why that’s so many the great to me so much good activism comes out of young people noticing before what had just been taken for granted but now they’re able to see and feel and chafe against ways in which there had been structures in place that they that were invisible to an older generation and so they’re kind of the great articulators and of difference in some ways. And then as you get older, you you You start maybe missing the boat a little bit more on differences, because there’s a sense in which as you get older, you start to relax your own, I guess the sense of those differences and what comes more to the fore, maybe some of those more unifying pieces. Now, I don’t know if if you to feel that way, but I’ve just sort of, it’s kind of an observation of, you know, as a, you know, anthropologist, kind of seen that out there.

Tasha
Yeah, absolutely. Even just from, from a psychological perspective, you know, when you’re young, the job of your psyche is differentiation, you’re, you know, you’re building your personhood. And so it’s like, you know, the music that you listen to is super defining, and the clothes you’re wearing are different than theirs and fairly defines you. And so it’s like, you know, that’s the job of your psychology. The point is, like, you know, you’re seeing difference everywhere. And I’ve noticed it too, as I, you know, as I’m getting older, it’s like, you’ve seen all the differences, so many times that you’re like, yes, there’s difference. But really, this, the secret, overarching thing is how similar we all are, you know, and so that’s when I, I totally agree with you, you start to lean more into like, the harmony of things, or how we’re all kind of the same. And both of those things are necessary, I think, in the evolution of people.

Sebene
That’s so interesting. I haven’t really thought about it that way. But it makes so much sense. And I’m wondering, too, if that process of differentiation, you know, kind of helps us just orient to our own path, because that’s probably part of the challenge of the sameness is that then we kind of lose sight of our uniqueness and our unique purpose and voice or we can, especially if the forces around us are conspiring to have us conform. So it’s, it almost saves young people from from that conformity, you know.

Tasha
Yeah absolutely.

Jeff
It’s interesting, I think part of it, as you get older is just getting more tired. You realize how much energy it takes to maintain separateness to maintain these boundaries, you know, and I know for myself, as I’m approaching 50, here, it’s like, I have gotten so much smarter about which battles I’m going to do. And by battles, I mean, I don’t just mean the external ones, I mean, the million subtle internal battles, that I used to be engaged in all the time, the little ways in which I needed to show that I was different, or I need to hold up this accomplishment or this thing, and you get, there’s definitely been a sense of like, oh, god, that’s so I’m so tired. Energy, and just let go of that, let go of that, let go of that, like, oh, that.

Tasha
I don’t know, if Sebene you feel this. But I think for me, too, there’s so much pressure as a person of color to identify as a person of color, and there’s so much going on to fight for right now. And sometimes, I feel tired about doint that sometimes I don’t want to be, you know, the poster child for a movement, I just want to be and I want to see the ways I’m similar to other people, you know, and then you feel there’s that extra layer of, well, I guess I should be I should be fighting for difference and stuff like that. So it’s this internal struggle, it’s not just out there in the world.

Sebene
Yeah. And sometimes it’s imposed from the outside. And sometimes we get so comfortable in our particular conversation or community, and we miss out on the freedom that’s possible in balancing, you know, balancing towards that connection and lack of separation. So it’s again, you know, three of understanding where we, we might need to lean to balance in that dichotomy, and that to see that it’s not either or, but I feel like people of color also need our own spaces for this reason. So we can do practices that are specifically designed for us.

Tasha
Absolutely. Yeah. And how, how do you feel in that sense? How do you feel the community is flourishing? Or that you’ve seen a lot of change or not change in finding spaces for people of color to practice?

Sebene
Oh, a lot of change. Yeah, and when when we first started having POC spaces in New York, you know, it was pretty much one or two groups and everybody came because they were the only one or two groups. They were huge gatherings, actually. And now what Forget it now online. I mean, there’s a POC group every day, multiple times a day that you can find to practice with. And I think the conversation for that reason is getting more nuanced. And recently, I’ve seen and have also been myself, creating space for also affinity groups within POC groups. So that you know, even through zoom, just creating breakout rooms for the South Asian Diaspora people or for African and black Diaspora people and for, you know, Pacific Islander or Asian American people and that that has been really powerful to allow people to start to even within those, you know, their limiting identifications, but start have kind of create more complexity and possibility within this huge label POC, which has started to become a little useless. And basically, yeah.

Jeff
Should we ask a couple of practical questions about this Elements meditation?

Tasha
Yeah!

Jeff
Just in terms of if someone were listening to this, we’re interested in doing this as a regular practice? Do you have any tips for them or any, just kind of practical insights about how that could work?

Sebene
Yeah, we spoke to it a little bit, I think it takes some time. For some of us, it feels a little bit more like a contemplation than a felt sense meditation in the beginning, or it can, especially if we have a tendency to get them not be embodied in our practice, which is something most of us as moderns have to work on, you know, we, we tend to be in our heads more we’re trained that way from, you know, the time we’re little. So it’s not our fault. It’s just that we have to kind of reorient I know you talk a lot about this Jeff to, to really feeling so that that can take a little time. So not getting kind of tripped up by that. And I brought in the contemplation about trees and earth and water kind of externally. But it could be helpful maybe to just focus on the internal if, if you can’t quite get the hang of it in the beginning. And and then also remember that the mindfulness instructions actually talk about being aware internally, being aware, externally, being aware, both internally and externally. And that is the most repeated frame in the teachings on mindfulness. That’s interesting. Yeah. And so that invitation, I think, is a powerful one, especially for the elements and starts to bridge that connection. And then you know, day to day, you can bring this not as a doesn’t have to be like a 20 minute elements meditation, it could just be something you do at the beginning of your practice, at the end of the practice, to just sense these experiences these metaphors, and then see how you can carry it into your day. So I constantly ground like you were saying, Jeff, you know, with my feet, because they’re farthest from my head, and really feel the earth element. That’s the one that’s kind of most powerful for me a lot of the time, and bring it into a relationship around you. Like my desk is made of wood, that is the earth element. And when I you know, heating up some water, that is the fire element, when I’m drinking, or sweating, that is the water element. So you start to really experience how these elements are alive for us in any moment.

Tasha
Very cool.

Jeff
Is there anything Sebene that, you know, anything left maybe to say about the practice itself before we start to move into our final lap here?

Sebene
Yeah, you know, I think that the kind of sacred, really connecting aspect of this is just so powerful for us in the midst of all the complexity and all the challenges right now, to not forget that we’re basically like, magical beings.

Jeff
I feel that to a lot that sometimes you’re just like, Don’t you realize, this is all just unbelievable that we’re inside this magical freakin cosmic mystery which nobody understands and the relationship to the inside and the outside. And that you yourself can come into a profoundly different relationship with reality, these practices, this needs to be like very well seems to be said again and again and again and again in life.

Tasha
I think that’s like, what all these practices are, right? They’re all just like these arrows pointing to that. And whichever one kind of wakes you up to, that is a good practice for you know, that’s why I love hearing all these different practices because I like for somebody this is the ultimate doorway into seeing how awesome Everything is.

Sebene
Yeah, I love that and love that. More Mystery.

Tasha
More mystery. Yeah,

Jeff
More mystery. Well Sebene, it’s been such a pleasure.

Sebene
It’s been so great. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this.

Tasha
Thank you so much for being on.

Tasha
Thanks for tuning into the Consciousness Explorers Podcast. Don’t forget to subscribe. And if you’d like this episode, give us a five star rating on Apple podcasts. See you next week for a whole new adventure.